1028 Shri Kancha Ilaiah seems to be traversing an inappropriate path, in his Quest for Social Justice

In Ancient and medieval history, the Caste System was extremely misused, and it has deprived many Classes of their legitimate dues. While it is true that we, in Independent India, cannot continue with such Oppressive System, in our Quest for Social Justice, we cannot create new problems for Indian Nation. To rectify one mistake, we cannot commit thousand other mistakes.

Shri Kancha Ilaiah's Lop-sided views cannot be replied to in just one blog post.

Shri Ilaiah's haste, and 'misdirected bullets on incorrect targets' will not help the cause of BCs or dalits in India, because stratification of the Indian Socio Economic Society of the 21st Century is different from the socio-economic Structures of the Indian Ancient and Medieval History.

He is directing his arrows and bullets to a particular caste i.e. 'banias (in Telugu: vysyas or kOmaTlu)'. Cornering of Wealth, some amounts of smuggling, blackmarketing, hoarding, etc. in the 21st Century India, are done by 'clever' persons, belonging to all Communities and Castes. Hence, he should have directed his arrows and bullets towards 'Traders, Industrialists' or generic terms like 'Capitalists, bourgeoisie' can be used.

Question: Will it be good to call 'Traders, Industrialists' etc 'Social Smugglers'?

Ans: Traders, Industrialists, Business persons also do some service. They bring Place Utility, Time Utility, Manner Utility, to the goods and services, and then pass on to the Consumers for a Price. In a Capitalist or Bourgeoisie system, it is not only Traders, Industrialists, Business Persons, and numerous others pursuing different activities contribute to the Progress of the country and the Society, and in return claim their Remuneration from the Country/Society. In a 10 point Scale or Ladder, we have different 'Classes' of Traders, Industrialists, Business Persons with vastly different Income and Wealth Profiles. Evens Shepherds and Cowherds are Business Persons. They do not keep/breed sheep and cows for Charity. For that matter in a Capitalist Society, nobody does anything for Charity, or out of philanthropy. If Mr. Bill Gates does or propagates some Charity or Philanthropy, we have to understand that he is just pretending.

Hence, the Evils which we see in the Socio-Economic Structure, and Activities of India, cannot be attributed to some X caste or Y Class (traders etc.). Any person/Institution/Organisation/Corporate/Entity can become and pursue Grabbing and Oppressive Activities, because the entire System is polluted and contaminated. For example, Cement Factories in and around Mella Cheruvu, Nalgonda District, Telangana State, occupy Government lands, Private lands of small farmers, Assigned Lands, and raise Fences to prevent People using even Common walking/cart track Paths. Which castes do these Cement Units belong to? It is not even their 'Greed'. It is their 'Survival Need'. If they cannot indulge in illegal activities, they cannot survive in Barbaric Capitalist Wild Human Forests, where humans themselves turn out to be Wild Animals.

At the same time, we cannot equate a cobbler or a potter at the bottom 10 rung of the Socio-economic ladder with the Ambanis, Advanis, Tatas and others at Rung 1. What Mr. Ilaiah has tried to do, is that only. A petty Merchant robbing SCs, BCS, Tribals in a very remote village of Telangana, cannot be compared to Ambanis and Adanis, simply because both of them are 'banias' or Vysyas or kOmaTlu or Settys by birth.

Because resources of the Indian Economy/Society are not unlimited, Nationalising and Redistributing the Entire Wealth of the Country/Nation on 'birth' basis or even 'occupation' basis will not solve the 21st Century Problems of India. Such approaches might have worked in by-gone Centuries, when population was low, desires, needs and aspirations were few. When Resources are meagre, entire Wealth and Income-sources of the Country are to be in the hands of the Nation. The Nation will have to guarantee Food, Clothing, Shelter, Old Age Security, some Vanilla Health Services, some Vanilla Education Services to everybody on EQUALITY BASIS. This is possible only under True Total Socialism (Not the Communism or Marxism of the China Brand).
To come back and continue adding / deleting / modifying

1010 Where is it laid down in Vyasa Mahabhagavata that different castes emerged from diferent parts of Lord?

Where is it laid down in Vyasa Mahabhagavata, that Brahmin's (Priests caste) have emerged from Lord's Head, Kshatriyas (Warrior caste) have emerged from Lord's shoulders, Vysyas (Merchant and Landlord caste) have emerged from Lord's thighs, and SUdrAs (Servants caste) have emerged from Lord's feet? Answer for the question can be seen at Vyasa Sanskrit Mahabharata, Book 8 (ashTama skantha), Chapter 5, Verses approx. No. 207.

vipro mukhAd brahma ca yasya guhyam
rAjanya asid bhujayor balam ca
Urvor vid ojo anghrir aveda-sudrau
prasidatAm naha sa mahA-vibhutihi.

The Brahmins (Priests caste) and Vedic knowledge come from the mouth of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
The kshatriyAs (warrior caste) and bodily strength come from His arms.
Vaisyas (Merchant caste) and their expert knowl­edge in productivity and wealth come from His thighs.
SUdrAs (Servant caste), who are outside of Vedic knowledge, come from His feet. May that Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is full in prowess, be pleased with us.

ybrao-a-donkey's personal views, which are not intended to be imposed on others:-

Though Sanskrit is not a dead language as many people perceive it to be, its daily usage in private homes and in public places, is rather limited. But it is extensively used in temple worships, Hindu family functions such as marriages, funerals, Opening of third eye ceremonies (upa-nayanams), initiating education to children ceremonies (aksharA- abhyAsa), etc. etc. Some of these are also called SamskArams.

There are many Indian languages (those which are recognised by Government of India/ Indian Constitution, and those which are not recognised), which have extensive literature. Unfortunately I do not know them, except my mother tongue Telugu and our National Language Hindi. Hence, I am quoting from a Telugu translation of Mahabhagavata, done by Bammera pOtnAmAtya, 15th Century CE circa.

వ. మఱియు, నెవ్వని బలంబున మహేంద్రుండును, ప్రసాదంబున దేవతలును, గోపంబున రుద్రుండును, బౌరుషంబున విరించియు, నింద్రియంబులవలన వేదంబులును మునులును, మేఢ్రంబునఁ బ్రజాపతియు, పక్షంబున లక్ష్మియు, ఛాయవలనఁ బితృదేవతలును, స్తనంబులవలన ధర్మంబును, బృష్ఠంబువలన నధర్మంబును, శిరంబువలన నాకంబును, విహాసంబువలన నప్సరోజనంబులును, గుహ్యంబువలన బ్రహ్మంబును, ముఖంబువలన విప్రులును, భుజంబువలన రాజులును (బలంబును), నూరువులవలన వైశ్యులును (నైపుణ్యంబును), పదంబులవలన శూద్రులును (అవేదంబును), అధరంబు వలన లోభంబును, నుపరి రదచ్ఛదంబువలనఁ బ్రీతియుఁ, నాసాపుటంబువలన ద్యుతియు, స్పర్శంబునఁ గామంబును, భ్రూయుగళంబున యమంబును, బక్షంబునఁ గాలంబును సంభవించె, నెవ్వని యోగ మాయా విహితంబులు ద్రవ్య వయః కర్మ గుణ విశేషంబులు, చతుర్విధ భూత సర్గం బెవ్వని యాత్మతంత్రంబు, నెవ్వని వలన సిద్ధించి, లోకంబులును లోకపాలురుం బ్రతుకుచుందురు, పెరుఁగుచుందురు, దివిజులకు నాయువు బలంబునై,జగంబులకు నీశుండై, పరమ మహాభూతి యగు నప్పరమేశ్వరుండు మాకుం బ్రసన్నుండగుఁ గాక! అని మఱియును.

Approx. English GistAnd, by virtue of whose strength the Chief of Demy-Gods Mahendra was born, whose grace demy Gods were born,
from whose anger Lord Shiva was born,
from whose valor Creator Brahma was born,
from whose organs were born vEdas and Sages,
from whose penis were born prajApatis (Literal meaning: Masters of People, but the meaning I am fond of eliciting: The first generation humans),
from whose chest was born the Goddess of Prosperity 'Lakshmi', from whose shadow were born Gods of Ancestry(-stors),
from whose breasts were born 'duty and virtuosity',
from whose hips was born 'injustice',
from whose head was born the heaven,
from whose laughter was born- the companies of nymphs,
from whose loins was born the 'infinite Supreme Spirit',
from whose face were born- the Brahmins (Priest Class),
from whose shoulders were born- the kshatriyas (Warrior Caste),
from whose thighs were born- the Vysya caste (Merchants and Agriculturists),
from whose feet were born- the SUdras and avEda (the Servant Caste, and whatever is non-vEdic),
from whose lower lips was born covetousness and temptation,
from whose upper lips were born- love and affection,
from whose nostrils was born radiance and sheen of body,
from whose touch emerged lust,
from whose eye-brows were born- the self-control and self-restraint ([Note: Shri Prabhupada in his English Translation of Sanskrit Mahabhagavata, took the English meaning of 'yama' in the same context as 'yama rAja' (the God of Death). But the contextual meaning is to be taken as yamam (a twin of yama-niyamas of the first two stages of patanjali's AshTAnga yOga Path. The God of Death also called 'kAlA' has nothing to do with this 'yama'.), which deals with citta vritti nirOdham (controlling of mind)],
from whose sides were born the 'time',
the manifestations of whose sport are the materials-and-substances, aging, actions, qualities,
the structural framework of whose self-activities and dynamics are the five Spirits of the Universe- Earth, Water, Fire, Wind and Sky,
from whom are born, and survive+grow -- these worlds and their rulers,

who is the life-force of the Heavenly Gods, Lord of this Cosmic Universe, the Supreme Spirit of this Universe, The Supreme God-- let Him be Gracious towards us!

Context:

The Emperor Bali conquered all the Heavenly Worlds, and ousted Indra, the Chief of Demy Gods. Consequently, he desperate Demy Gods, their displaced Boss Indra,-- approach the Creator for protection. In the above 'prose' of Poet Bammera PotanAmAtya, the Creator praises the Supreme God Lord VishNu and prays for his Grace. This is the prelude to the 5th incarnation 'vAmAnAvatAra' (Incarnation as a Dwarf boy) of Lord VishNu.

In the Sanskrit Mahabharata of Vyasa, also there were many verses prior to, and later than, the verse quoted above which form the source for Potana's translation. I have not given them, because they are outside the scope of our analyses of the Ancient Indian Caste System (cAtur varNa -Asrama- vyavastha). Potana's prose is a very lengthy compound sentence, which I did not want to, and I am unable to, truncate for extracting only the phrases and clauses relevant to the four castes. Hence, the translation of the entire sentence became necessary.

One yb-donkey-perceived difference between the Sanskrit Verses of VyAsa and Telugu verses of Potana

VyasA's Mahabharata and Mahabhagavata are scholarly works. They may not be the work of one person by name 'vyAsa' or successions of Scholars with prefix/suffix name 'vyAsa'. Even if they be as such, creations of persons by name 'vyAsa', there might have been numerous insertions by Temple Preachers, Hermitage Teachers (gurukula gurus), whenever new palm leaves / copper plates were inscribed at the instance of Rich/Ruling Patrons. On the other hand POtana was not only a poet, but a Natural Scholar (Sahaja pAnDitya), whatver that phrase might have meant. He too had called himsel as such. But, I do not think so. Potana's absolute control on vocabulary both Sanskrit and Telugu, control on prosody, comprehension of subtle concepts of metaphysical and philosophical concepts could not have been acquired in one day. It is not possible even for a most capabl Guru to impart such nearly-boundless skills. Potana himself might have spent several days and sleepless nights contemplating on

He had no patrons. He sustained and subsisted from cultivating his small pieces of lands. There was nobody pinching him to add their idiosyncrasies. However, POtana stuck to the Original vyAsa source MahA bhAgavata. He did not deviate, even where there were obvious absurdities worth editing / moderating. While adhering to the Original Vyasa source verses, whenever an opportunity came for him to sing the glories of His Lord VishNu, and to delineate devotional/spiritual/renunciational matters, he went out of bounds, and we find his expositions of Great Poetic Glories, with complete soulful outpourings and reflections of his Liberated Mind. Sanskrit vyAsa Mahabhagavata consists mainly of verses. I am unable to identify prose anywhere. Potana Bhagavata is 'champoo' i.e. it contains both verses and lengthy prose. Potana's prose is in no way inferior to his Verses. I believe that Potana might have chosen prose, whenever he might have considered that prose would be less tedious and lengthy when compared to series of verses. To my half-baked knowledge and mind, it appears that Tikkana in his Translation of vyAsa bhArata used series of 'kanda (prosody meter)' , which sometimes looked to me as something monotonous and insipid. My Tikkana-Admirer Readers will please forgive me, if I crossed my limits through these remarks.

Some of the Prose items of Poet Bammera POtanAmAtya, are worthy of getting by heart, and reciting/regurgitating when we have leisure. The prose quoted above is also one such long compound sentence. Of course, the Caste-related-issues are to be separately viewed and analysed with a set of parameters different from literary whetstones.

Question: Why do you occasionally bring up this rotten 'Indian system of 4 caste system?'

Ans: It is not I, who raises it this Caste issues, frivolously. My Readers must go to the BJP Party President, Shri Amit Shah, who has recently called Mahatma Gandhi a 'chatur bania' (A shrewd merchant caste person), and ask him why he is worried about Mahatma Gandhi's caste. The word 'chatur' means shrewd and clever. 'Bania' refers to the Merchant caste generally called 'vYsyas'. Even if people of India want to forget about their castes, Politicians and Rulers will not allow them to forget, just as the EuramANZ politicians and Rulers do not allow the Whites to forget about their body color.

Important Notes

All the three important scriptures/Epics of India i.e. vyAsa Mahabharata, vyAsa Mahabhagavata, vAlmiki Ramayana, contain similar verses which STIPULATE that the four castes are born from four body organs of Supreme Lord.

I have in the previous posts covered and quoted the verses from Valmiki Ramayana and vyAsa Mahabharata. Links to those posts, I shall add here, below.

Bhagavad Gita, though is a part of Mahabharata, is often revered at a higher plane, and it too has in its chapters 3, and 18 have verses which support the Four Caste System. In my personal view, the very objective of Bhagavad Gita is to clear the anguishes and anxieties of Arjuna (disciple) by the preceptor Krishna, about the dangers, evils of Mix-up-Pollutions of the Four Castes, and reinforce the veracity of the Four Castes System, and the duties imposed by it.

Links:--

I could not, so far, cover the verses from Mahabhagavata. This particular blog post completes that task. Now, we have all the four scriptures, and their keennesses on the Four Caste System, apart from their principal object of praising the glories of Lord VishNu, the God of the Migrant Aryans.

NOTE

This is not a Spiritual Blog, as a few of my Readers believe it to be.

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Vocabulary help for selected words, pasted from Internet

delineate dɪˈlɪnɪeɪt/ verb verb: delineate; 3rd person present: delineates; past tense: delineated; past participle: delineated; gerund or present participle: delineating

1. describe or portray (something) precisely. "the law should delineate and prohibit behaviour which is socially abhorrent" synonyms: describe, set forth, set out, present, outline, depict, portray, represent, characterize; More map out, chart; define, detail, specify, identify, particularize;

2. indicate the exact position of (a border or boundary). "his finger found a precisely outlined section delineated in red marker" synonyms: outline, trace, draw the lines of, draw, sketch, block in, mark (out/off), delimit, mark the boundaries/limits of "a section on the map delineated in red marker pen". Origin: mid 16th century (in the sense ‘trace the outline of something’): from Latin delineat- ‘outlined’, from the verb delineare, from de- ‘out, completely’ + lineare (from linea ‘line’).

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ethereal: ɪˈθɪərɪəl/. adjective adjective: ethereal; adjective: etherial

1. extremely delicate and light in a way that seems not to be of this world. "her ethereal beauty" synonyms: delicate, exquisite, dainty, elegant, graceful, beautiful, lovely;

Still incomplete. Shall endeavor to complete this, some other day.

To come back and continue adding / deleting / modifying.

888 I am not very particular about-on whether Aryans migrated into India, or whether Indians migrated into the Western World. My priority is Total True Socialism and Unimposed atheism

A learned friend of mine, who is sincerely and seriously interested in proving that Aryans have not migrated into India, and that it is the other way round i.e. Indians spread their culture into the Western Hemisphere, has emailed a number of internet links which prove the Indian Westward Migration idea. I wish to paste all those net links here, for the benefit of my readers. This I shall do shortly. Unfortunately, Aryan Migration into India, is only one of a thousand subjects which I handle in my quest and thirst towards Total True Socialism, and a sort of atheism called aguardianism. I have been highlighting the theory of Aryan Migration into India, only with the help of INdian Epics like Valmiki Ramayan and Vyasa Mahabharat (Sanskrit language). That evidence is prima facie sufficient for my limited purpose of examining the causes of monstrous and oppressive + opprobrious (some people spell this as approbrious) nature of caste system India, which has subdued the Lower Sudras and the dalits into slavery for Centuries. I have no desire to prove who migrated to where i.e. Aryans into India, or Aryans into Europe. For the benefit of my readers, I reiterate my views:--

yb-a-donkey's views which are not intended to be imposed on others. I request my readers to forbear with me for my open views, which I have know intent to hurt anybody's personal religious/caste sentiments.

Throughout the history of India, you will find that white races have tried to prove that they are handsome, valiant, and knowledgeable. For white races 'white' is beauty and white is great. This culture seeped so much into Indian psyche, that Fair and Lovely is palming off some creams and minting millions from innocent Indians who still consider that white is beautiful.

I have already given the verses which showed that ancient Brahmins and ancient Kshatriyas were behind this white superiority propaganda. Ancient Brahmins and Ancient Kshatriyas wanted to convince the ancient inferior castes that they (whites and reds) were born from the head, neck, and chest of Supreme God, while the inferior castes were born from thighs (Vysyas) and feet (Sudras).

The ancient Brahmins and ancient Kshatriyas have tried to prevent mixing up of races, with the sole aim of keeping 'whites' pure. But they they were short of white women, and consequently, they in their lust, used the black Native Indian Women, calling it anulOmam . They tried their best to ensure that white women do not fall in love to native Indian males, calling it 'vilOmam' . But how long they can control?

Ultimately it led to the mixing up of castes and colors, and the hybrid Indian Nation is born. During these 3,000 years, most ancient kshatriyas were dead. Some other Upper Sudra castes tried to occupy the vacuum, by performing some sacrifices with the help of ancient Brahmins, on the Aravali Mountains. Brahmins and Vysyas dominated the society, with the help of UPPER Sudras (black natives admitted to Mixed society for the sake of convenience) who had physical prowess needed for riding horses, using swords. Thus, went on the saga of India.

21st Century Indian Upper and Lower Castes are different from the Ancient and Medieval castes of India

It is also to be kept in mind that the various upper and lower castes of Ancient and Medieval periods do not exist today. 21st Century India's Upper and Lower Castes have evolved into a different genre, owing to the influence of Capitalism, which regards Money as the Supreme God, which accords higher respect and status to persons, irrespective of their birth castes. 21st Century India, irrespective of castes of individuals, has only one aim and direction: How to become rich in the shortest possible time. Quality of means used to attain that enrichment, is irrelevant.

What do some persons belonging to Upper Castes of India, including Upper Sudras, want to prove?

Now, some modern Brahmins and Vysyas , seemed to believe that Indians are the most superior race in the world. They wanted to prove that when Europeans were moving naked, Indians taught them how to wear clothes. Upper Sudras too share this belief that Indians taught the world, how to wear clothes. For parties which claim to be Nationalistic and Patriotic Parties, the basic tool is same: Indian Superiority in the World. Spreading Indian Culture abroad, is a fad for these people in these parties.

This is India today. Whoever supports the self-proclaimed Nationalistic and Patriotic Parties, and their belief that Indians represent the intellectually the most superior race, will get acclaimed as 'dESa bhaktas (patriots)', and others are branded 'dESa drOHIs (Traitors to the country)' .

My goal or priority is not PROVING or DISPROVING the color of Indians. Converting prayer houses into godowns, it is not for me to decide. If at all, proletarian parties come to ower, it will be for the proletariat and the elected democratic Government at that time to decide whether to continue prayer houses as prayer-houses or something else. What I am interested in, is only the intellectual upgradation of people, that too, on their own volition, through self-education and self-enlightenment.

Hence, I am UNABLE TO SPEND MORE TIME EXCLUSIVELY ON THIS ARYAN INVASION / MIGRATION THEORY. It is only one among 1000 subjects I handle. I have already completed 888 posts at this problemsoftelugus. I now have only 112 to do, whereas I have a number of topics to cover. Above all, I have to focus on Atheism, Total True Socialism. These things are more connected with democracy and politics, rather than 'who invaded'. Religion and culture do not take a Nation towards true total socialism.

I shall edit this post more thoroughly, evening or tomorrow.

To continue. सशेष. ఇంకా ఉంది.