My post No. 673 Link: Click to go to 673 dealt with the equanimity required for scholars in treating creatures equally. Context, why Swamijis advocate a taboo on cow-beef? why not they advocate a moral taboo on buffalo-beef, goat-meat (mutton), camel-beef etc. To examine this idea, ybrao-a-donkey took the support of the Bhagavad Gita verse, "vidyA vinaya sampannE" of the Chapter 5/18.
My learned friend sent an email, that I erred in interpreting the meaning of the verse "vidyA vinaya sampannE". For that I have already provided sufficient explanation in my previous post.
Along with the interpretative commentary of Shri Ramanuja, sent by my learned friend, he made an observation about the improper comments which are being passed about the verse "chAtur varNyam mayA (Four castes have been created by me), of Gita 3/18.
I quote below the observation made by my learned friend:
Telugu: నా ఉద్దేశం ప్రకారం రామానుజులవారి గీతాభాష్యమే అతి కచ్చితమైనది. ఒక శ్లోకాన్ని సరిగ్గా ఎలా అర్థం చేసుకోకపోతే ఎలటాంటి కువ్యాఖ్యానాలు వస్తాయో మీకు చెప్పడానికే నా ప్రయత్నం. అలాగే, చాతుర్వర్ణ్యం మయాసృష్టం అనే శ్లోకానికి కూడా అనేక కువ్యాఖ్యానాలు వెలిసేయి. నిజానికి చాతుర్వర్ణ్యం అంటే, బ్రాహ్మణ, క్షత్రియ, వైశ్య, శూద్రులు కారు. ఎందుకంటే, సృష్టిలో మానవులు ఒక్కరే లేరు. చేతనాలు, అచేతనాలు ఎన్నో వున్నాయి. దానికి సరియైన అర్థమేమంటే, దేవ, మానవ, తిర్యక్, స్థావర అని అర్థం. ఈ అసలైన అర్థాన్ని విస్మరించి, చెత్త అర్థాలతో కంపు చేసేరు కొంతమంది భాష్యకారులు. మీరు కూడా అవే భాష్యాలని ఉటంకించడం నాకు నచ్చక మీ అవగాహనను విస్తృతపరచే ఉద్దేశంతోనే నేను ఈమెయిల్ పంపేను.
For the benefit of readers who do not know Telugu, approx. English gist of the above observation, made by friend: According to my view, the interpretative-commentary (Sanskrit: bhAshyam) of Gita by Shri Ramanuja alone is vry accurate.
My attempt is to tell, how if a verse is not properly understood, what type of improper comments (ku-vyAkhyAnAs) may arise.
Similarly, several improper comments arose for the verse "CAtur-varNyam mayA srishTyA" (Engl.: "Four castes have been created by me"). In reality, Four castes do not mean: Brahmins (priests), Kshatriyas (barons, soldiers, warriors), Vysyas (merchants), and SUdrAs (servants). Because, in this creation, there are not only humans. There are Motives and Statics etc., many. (Mobiles, immobiles, which can move, which cannot move). The correct meaning for that is: demy-Gods (dEva), human (mAnava), Motive-mobile-dynamic (which have locomotion i.e. tiryak in Sanskrit), and Static (without locomotion like plants which are embedded to ground. Some interpretative-commentors have ignored this meaning, and messed up (Telugu: kampu cEsEru). As I am unable to appreciate you also quoting those, and with a view to expand your comprehensive understanding, I have sent the email.
ybrao-a-donkey's humble comments. वैबीराव एक गधे के विनम्र राय . వైబీరావ్ గాడిద వినమ్ర వాణి. You have every right to differ with me. I respect your right. आपको मेरे मत से भिन्न राय रखने के संपूर्ण हक है। मै उस अधिकार को परिपूर्ण रूप से गौरव देता हुँ. మీకు, మీ భిన్నమైన అభిప్రాయాన్ని కలిగిఉండే సంపూర్ణ హక్కు ఉంది. దానిని ఎంతో నేను గౌరవిస్తాను. However, pl. examine this donkey's views also. परन्तु एस गधे के दृष्टिकोण को भी अनुशीलन कीजिये. కానీ ఈ గాడిద దృష్టికోణాన్ని కూడ ఓర చూపుతో కంటజూడుమీ, క్రీగంట జూడమీ.
1. There is no definition of what is "cetta=garbage" , at least as far as interpretations are concerned, unless the interpretations are grossly absurd when viewed in consonance with , or in the light of the literal meaning of the thing which is interpreted. In ordinary circumstances, literal meaning and literal interpretation seem to serve the purpose, and functionality. Exceptional interpretations do not become inviolable rules. If Shri Ramanuja made a literal interpretation, as long as it is not totally repugnant to the original literal meaning, or to the context, or to reasonableness of courtesy, politeness, we can welcome with open hands. If he has made indirect, remote interpretations, then also they are welcome, as long as they are reasonable.
2. Back to CAturvarNya mayA srishTyA verse
First, for the benefit of our readers, we shall quote the text in Roman Script, its approx. Engl. gist.
Chapter 4. Verse No. 13. 04/013 or 4/13.
Chapter: GnAna yOga. Path of Knowledge / Awareness.
cAturvarNyam mayA srishTam
guNa karma vibhAgaSa:
tasya kartAram api
mAm viddhi akartAram avyayam
English gist: The four caste system has been created by me. The classification of the four castes is in accordance with the qualities and actions. Though I created the castes, I am not the 'Doer'. I am infinite.
The context and purpose of Gita is to motivate Prince Arjuna to fight the Mahabharata war. If Lord Krishna is referring to the four castes of Shri Ramanuja's definition i.e. Demy Gods, Humans, Motive Creatures, Static Creatures, -- existence of Demy Gods is questionable. Motive Creatures do not fight wars, unless they are horses and elephants used in the Kurukshetra. Static Creatures i.e. Plants and Trees do not fight battles.
Lord Krishna referred to the castes of Priests (Brahmins), Warriors (Kshatriyas), Merchants (Vysyas), and SUdrAs (Servants), i.e. the standard commonly understood Indian Caste System only.
PROOF निरूपण ఋజువు
Go to Bhagavad Gita Chapter 18, verses 42, 43 and 44 which tries to impose duties on the four castes. We shall now quote them in Roman Script and their English Gist:
MSY 42
s`amoo damas tapa: s`aucham kshaamtir aarjavam eeva ca
gnaanam vignaanam aastikyam brahmakarma svabhaavajam
MSY 43
s`auryam teejoo dhrutir daakshyam yuddhee ca api apalaayanam
daanam iis`varabhaavas` ca kshatrakarma svabhaavajam
MSY 44
krushi goorakshya vaan`ijyam vais`yakarma svabhaavajam
qparicaryaatmakam karma s`uudrasyaapi svabhaavajam.
ENGLISH GIST
Control of internal senses, Control of the external senses, penance, internal and external hygiene, endurance, simplicity, knowledge, awareness, faith (in scriptures and God) are the qualities inherent to the Priests. (DELIVERANCE 42).
Valor, vigor, courage, efficiency and effectiveness, not fleeing from the battle field, charity, desire to rule the world are all the inherent duties and Actions of a Warrior. (DELIVERANCE 43).
Agriculture, cow-rearing, trade, are the inherent functions of a Trader-caste-born person. Service is the inherent function of a Fourth-Caste born. (DELIVERANCE 44).
Bhagavad Gita is attributed to Lord Krishna and Sage vyAsa. These three verses in the Path of "Liberation and Deliverance" are also a part of the Concluding chapter of the Bhagavad Gita. What is the ending of this preaching embodied in the 715 verses of Gita? Adhere to your caste duties. If you are a soldier by caste, you fight. If you are a Priest by caste, you worship. If you are a Trader by caste, you do business. If you are a Servant by caste, you serve. Where is the place for devas, tiryaks (Motives i.e. animals), sthAvaras (statics i.e. plants) here? Lord Krishna is very much direct. No hiding.
Question: In 4/13 or in 18/42-43-44, there is no reference to BIRTH. Lord Krishna is attributing castes, to the qualities (guNas) and acts (karmas) persons. How do you link it to castes?
PROOF
Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 13, Path of Field & Field-knower, Verse 21.
KSHEETRA KSHEETRAGNA VibhAga yOga , Verse 021
purusha: prakrutisthoo hi
bhumktee prakrutijaan gun`aan
kAraNam guNasamgO
asya sad asad yOni janmasu
English Gist
Though the Living Soul is coexisting with the Nature, he bears and consumes joys and sorrows which are born from the Nature. The companionship of the Living Soul with the Nature is the cause for the Soul's getting a good or a bad womb. ( good birth: such as human; bad birth: such as insect or worm Good birth: King. Bad birth: Wretched person.). sad yOni =good womb. asad yOni = bad womb.
Thus Lord Krishna is very much concerned with "wombs" (Sanskrit: yOnis), in other words births.
My Readers, who are thorough with my blog posts at this problemsoftelugus.blogspot.com, I have given one solid proof from Vyasa Mahabharata to show that Aryans were concerned about colors of bodies, and colors of castes.
As far as I can recollect, its link is below: Link: Click to go to
I shall quote vyasa mahabharata and Tikkana Bharatam verbatim.
--Santi Parva 181 005 (bhrigu explained to bharadvAja):
brahmaNAnAm sito varNah
kshatriyANAm tu lohitah-
vaiSyAnAm pItako varNah
SUdrANAm asitas tathA
brahmins white color. kshatriyas red color. vaisyas yellow color. sUdras black color.
బ్రాహ్మణానాం సితో వర్ణః
క్షత్రియాణాం లోహితః
వైశ్యానాం పీతకో
శూద్రానాం అసితస్ తథా.
శ్లోకసారం: బ్రాహ్మణులది తెలుపు రంగు. క్షత్రియులది ఎరుపు రంగు. వైశ్యులది పసుపు రంగు. శూద్రులది నలుపు రంగు.
From Tikkana Telugu Mahabharatam :
శాంతిపర్వం, చతుర్ధాశ్వాసం, 97వ పద్యం. సీసపద్యం.
ఆగమ సత్య ధర్మాచార తపముల
కునికిపట్టుకాగ వనజభవుడు
కలిగించె మును బ్రాహ్మణుల మఱి కల్పించె
నృప వైశ్య శూద్రుల నిర్మలాత్మ
బ్రాహ్మణాదికముగఁ బరగు నన్నాలుగు
జాతుల యుజ్జ్వల ఛాయ లోలి
సొంపారు తెలుపునుఁ గెంపును బసపుచా
యయుఁ గప్పునయ్యు నండ్రార్య వర్యు
ఆటవెలది పద్యం.
లాత్మ కర్మ మెడలి యనులోమ వృత్తి నె
జ్జాతి సొచ్చు నన్యజాతి పనికి
దానికట్టి భంగి దలకొనుఁ బెక్కులు
పనులఁ జేసి జారతనము వచ్చు.
English essence of the tikkana's Telugu verse, as far as colors of castes, and body colors are concerned, is same as Vyasa's original.
This verse is very very important to show that Aryans were migrants into India. They claimed white, red, yellow colors for themselves, alloting Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vysya castes to themselves. Black Color was left to natives.
If Ruling Aryans (Priests + Warriors + Merchants castes) were original Natives of India, they would have been black. Servants would have been white. Allotment of four caste system (chAtur varNyam maya SrishTyA) is the creation of the Ruling Aryan Kings (Kshatriyas), in collaboration with Priests who were respectable, reverable, paid servants of the Kings. After invasions by numerous tribes like Huns, Sakas, KushAnus, Turks, Arabs, Moghuls, the population of White Aryan Warriors, White Aryan Priests, White Aryan Traders went down. At least at some places, Black Natives (hitherto classified as SUdras) have become kings. They started getting help from Black Native Warriors, Black Native Merchants, and of course Black Native Servants. The White Migrant Brahmins, unvanquished Warriors, Vysyas have become assistants to the Black Native Kings, and were forced to revise their scriptures, They have started inducting Black Gods and the Black Kings into mythology. Thus Black Ancestor Native Kings like Rama, Krishna were made into "incarnations" of Gods. A sort of interweaving took place between Black Native Kings and the courtier Black Priests, White Asst. Priests, Black Native Merchants, White Asst. Merchants. We got our Valmiki Ramayan, our VyAs Mahabharata, our Mahabhagavata, with glorification of Black Rama and Black Krishna. Here what is topsy-turvy? Masters have become Assistants. But, they have not lost their superiority complex. But they cannot refuse the orders of the Black Native Kings. We got our mixed culture.
The idea here is not, DEFINITELY NOT, to dig past history for creating dissensions among castes. It is to remind that we have to forget whatever had happened during the last 5000 years, and start a fresh life as an Indian Nation of 1.3 billion, with INDEPENDENT MINDS FREE OF PAST EGOS AND SERVITUDES.
What I want to say through this particular blog post is: "Get rid of the past dirt and dust. Start afresh". For that, Total True Socialism + True Equalism will be a tool.
These are only ideas which occurred to the donkey's mind of ybrao-a-donkey.
Unless priests and Kings say that God created the Castes, it will NOT be easy to enforce caste system on people, even after using brutal force. Creating Superstitious beliefs will be more effective and result-oriented to make people servants, than killing everybody. "God said, we heard, we are telling, you do." -- this is the message of our Priests and Rulers. Now Readers can compare 4th Century A.D. with 21st Century A.D.
ybrao-a-donkey is not going to be rigid. Welcome to corrections to what is written here, as long as they are based on reason.
For the benefit of those who have no idea about the verse 5/18 of Bhagavad Gita, I quote it below in Roman Script, with its English Gist.
KSY 018
vidyaavinayasampannee braahman`ee gavi hastini
s`uni ca iva s`vapaakee ca pamd`itaa: samadars`ina:
English gist as per ybrao-a-donkey:
Such scholars will be equanimous to a well educated and modest Brahmin, cow, elephant, dog, outcaste.
For the benefit of our readers, who wish to study Bhagavad Gita in Roman Script, with English Gist, here is a link, to the original verses and the interpretative-commentary done by ybrao-a-donkey.
Link to full text of Bhagavadgita: Link: Click to go to FULL TEXT of Bhagavad Gita
Link to full text of Bhagavadgita: Link: Click to go to only Chapter 5 "The path of Renunciation of Action 'Karma sanyAsa yOga' ".
The first edition of the Bhagavad Gita translation by ybrao-a-donkey in 2007c was somewhat pungent, as importance was given to socio-economic context, and the need to write frankly and truthfully. Many sentences have been removed by yb, with a view not to hurt the religious sentiments of Readers.
Subject to substantial Revision, additions and deletions. To continue and revise this, with more proof.. सशेष. సశేషం.
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