872 (8 of 10 series) Some reflections on Human behaviors among men, women, lgbts.

My appeal to my readers and others: I have no intent to hurt the beliefs, emotions, and sentiments of my readers or others. Before you proceed to read my blogposts, kindly promise to forbear with my indulgence and proceed ahead. You always have a right to click 'X' on the top. This is in continuation of post No. 869 at this blog about surrender of 'persons (male/females/lgbts) to their partners (male/female/lgbts'. Triggers for this post No. 872: 1. My own blogpost at this blog, a few days back, about 'Aryan Invasion Theory a mythe'. 2. Some cases pending in High Courts and Supreme Court, about 'equality of women with men' with regard to 'admission into prayer houses of all religions'.

Here is a very valuable link, for the women's efforts to get themselves admitted into prayerhouses of different religions: Click here to go to http://www.india.com/news/india/demonetisation-surgical-strikes-exit-of-arnab-goswami-kashmir-unrest-7-events-that-stunned-or-changed-india-in-2016-1722128/ . What this webpage says, some salient points:

Women, who were barred from several religious places since centuries, won a crucial legal battle when the Bombay High Court on April 1 held that it is the women’s fundamental right to go into places of worship and the government is duty-bound to protect it. Following court’s order, the Shani Shingnapur temple in Maharashtra allowed women to enter the sanctum sanctorum, breaking the tradition followed for several decades.

The demand for temple entry to all classes and gender has long been a part of the larger struggle for social reform in India. The issue drew national attention when a group of women activists led by Trupti Desai, of the Bhumata Ranragini Brigade, were stopped from entering the inner sanctum of the Shani Shingnapur temple. The second victory followed soon when the Supreme Court on October 24 delivered its verdict upholding equal access to men and women to the sanctum sanctorum of Haji Ali Dargah in Mumbai.

When it comes to entry of women in the historic Sabarimala Temple in Kerala, the Supreme Court has made it that gender equality is a constitutional message and Sabarimala temple management cannot say that banning entry of women of a particular age group comes under their right to manage religious affairs. However the final verdict is yet to come in this matter.

yb-a-donkey's personal observations, not intended to be imposed on others

1. I have no objection or contrary views about the equality of rights of women on par with men (includes lgbts also). For this purpose, we can probably coin a word 'gender secularism'. Just as 'secularism' in strict sense will not be concerned about the 'religion' of citizens, 'gender secularism' need not be concerned about the gender of persons.

2. 2017 Indian Culture is an outcome of hybridization of hundreds of cultures and sub-cultures of invaders, migrants, and of course ancient Indian Natives. In my personal view, Jains (not necessarily the 2017 modern Jains. It may be their far-far ancestors) of South India, particularly Tamil Nadu, seem to be the ancient Native Indians. This guess work, we may hold-on to, to some extent, till further contrary evidence can be obtained.

3. Aryans migrated to India, from Latvia-Lithuania-OldPrussia-Balkans, through both the routes: 1. Central Asian route 2 Iran route.

4. Aryan worship is not idol-worship based . It is fire-worship based. Supreme God is mainly Vishnu, who is infinite (form-less, dimension-less). Offerings to him can be sent through Fire God. He is 'yagna nArAyan'. In our blogpost No. 553 at this blog Click to go to post No. 553, we have touched the idea of 'sacrifice of women' in Horse Sacrifices of Aryans, in Vyasa Mahabharata.

Vol 14. of Krishna DvaipAyana's (vyAsa) Sanskrit Mahabharata Epic of approx. 1,15,000 KumbhakONam version. Chapter 89. Verse Nos. 32 to 37. कृष्ण द्वैपायन के व्यस महाभारत. अश्वमेथ पर्व। श्लोक ३२ से ३७ तक. కృష్ణ ద్వైపాయన వ్యాసుడి సంస్కృత మహాభారతం, అశ్వమేథ పర్వం, 32 to 37 శ్లోకాలు.

Sanskrit language verses in Roman Script.

tE vya rAjanta rAjarshE bAsObhir upa SObhitAha|
mahEndrAnugatA dEva yathA saptarshibhir divi. 14-89-32.

ishTakAha kAncanIs chAtra cayanArtam kritA vibhO |
su SubhE cayanam tacca dakshasyEva prajApatE 14-89-33.

catus cityasca tasyAs AsId ashTA daSa karAtmakaha|
sa rukma pakshO nicitas trikONO garuDAkritihi. 14-89-34.

tatO niyuktAha paSavO yathA SAstram manIshibhi|
tam tam dEvam samudisya pakshiNaha paSavas ca yE. 14-89-35.

rishabhAha SAstra paThitAs tathA jala carAs ca yE|
sarvAm stAn abhyayumjamstE tatrAgni caya karmiNi. 14-89-36.

yUpEshu niyatAc AsIt paSUnAm triSatI tathA|
aSva ratnOttarA yagnE kauntEyasya mahAtmanaha. 14-89-37.

In dEvanAgari script (Hindi script). India's National Language.
ते व्यराजंत राजर्षे वासोभिर उपशोभिताः ।
महेंद्रानुगता देवा यथा सप्तर्षिभिर दिवि. १४-८९-३२.

इष्टकाः कांचनीश चात्र चयनार्तं कृता विभो।
सु शुभे चयनं तच्च दक्षस्येव प्रजापतेः. १४-८९-३३.

चतुश चित्यश्च तस्यासीत अष्टादश करात्मकः।
स रुक्म पक्षो निचितस त्रिकोणो गरुडाकृतिः १४-८९-३४.

ततो नियुक्ताः पशवो यथा शास्त्रं मनीषिभिः ।
तं तं देवं समुद्दिस्य पक्षिणः पशवश्च ये. १४-८९-३५.

ऋषभाः शास्त्र पठितास तथा जलचराश च ये ।
सर्वांस तान अभ्य युंजस ते तत्राग्नि चय कर्मणि. १४-८९-३६.

यूपेषु नियता चासीत पशूनां त्रिशती तथा ।
अश्व रत्नोत्तरा यज्ञे कौंतेयस्य महात्मनः. १४-८९-३७.

Telugu language spoken by 100 million people

తే వ్యరాజంత రాజర్షే వాసోభిరుపశోభితాః।
మహేంద్రానుగతా దేవా యథా సప్తర్షిభిర్దివి॥ 14-89-32

ఇష్టకాః కాంచనీశ్చాత్ర చయనార్తం కృతా విభో।
శుశుభే చయనం తచ్చ దక్షస్యేవ ప్రజాపతేః॥ 14-89-33

చతుశ్చిత్యశ్చ తస్యాసీదష్టాదశకరాత్మకః।
స రుక్మపక్షో నిచితస్త్రికోణో గరుడాకృతిః॥ 14-89-34

తతో నియుక్తాః పశవో యథాశాస్త్రం మనీషిభిః ।
తం తం దేవం సముద్దిశ్య పక్షిణః పశవశ్చ యే॥ 14-89-35

ఋషభాః శాస్త్రపఠితాస్తథా జలచరాశ్చ యే।
సర్వాంస్తానభ్యయుంజంస్తే తత్రాగ్నిచయకర్మణి॥ 14-89-36

యూపేషు నియతా చాసీత్పశూనాం త్రిశతీ తథా।
అశ్వరత్నోత్తరా యజ్ఞే కౌంతేయస్య మహాత్మనః॥ 14-89-37.
Context: Mahabharata war was over. YudhishThira was worried by killing kith and kin, he was polluted by sins. Vyasa advised him to perform ASvamEtha sacrifice. The above verses are a part of the sacrificial arrangements.

SACRIFICE OF WOMEN SLAVES

The above verses indicate that women might have also been sacrificed in Horse Sacrifices. The sacrificed women might have been slaves. But, these women slaves might have been of the genre of : 1. captured wives of defeated and slain male enemies. 2. wives of defaulters of usurious loans. 3. Female Servants who might have attained an age of INABILITY TO SERVE, and MAINTAINING THEM MIGHT HAVE BECOME A BURDEN FOR THE KING. All this is guess work only. Sustainability of these arguments will depend on more solid evidence(s) if available in future.

SELF IMMOLATION OF WOMEN ON PYRES OF DEAD HUSBANDS

Besides, some Mahabharata and Mahabhagavata verses indicate that the women of that period committed 'sati' (wife dying on the funeral pire of husband). E.g. Rukmini, Jambavati, after death of Krishna. But women were also free not to choose 'sati'. e.g. sAtrAjiti popularly called 'satya', favored wife of Krishna. In VirATa parva of Mahabharata, upa kIcakas trying to burn Sairandhi on the pyre of kIcaka, may be more of attributive nature, rather than enforcing 'sati'. However, it appears that Aryans had no objection to immolation or self-immolation or sacrifice of women on pyres, but freedom was given to women.

WOMEN SCHOLARS & RESPECTABILITY OF WOMEN AS EQUALS

The above discussion does not mean that there was no equality of women. There were great women scholars of Veda, like Gargi, MytrEyi. There is no adequate evidence to show that women were treated as inferior menials either in Aryan Civilisation or, in the Ancient Indian Native Civilisation.

Origin of the Culture of Penance

Both dEvAs (demy-Gods) and rAkshas (demons) were humans only, and both of them were Aryans. Devas might have been from Latvia-Lithuania. Rakshasas might have been from South Europe. Aryans do not seem to have a culture of tapasya. We can probably say that: Devas knew sacrifices, but not tapasya. (Europeans of yore, have they done penance? (tapasya?). Seven Sages (saptarshis) might have been later Indian Edition/Addition emulating Indian Natives. But the Seven Sages had wives and children. The Sages might not have worn saffron robes, though they may be fibrous/linen robes. Like their European ancestors, early Aryan migrants into India might have had only a materialist epicurean enjoyment approach, and might not have had CONQUERING SENSES as a lifetime goal or objective. It is a different thing that they might have had a belief in life after death.

ANCIENT INDIAN NATIVES (may be Ancient Jains, and other Forest Dwellers)

On the other hand, ancient Indian Natives prior to their interaction to the Aryan immigrants, though might have been aware of 'fire' and 'wheel', were apparently not much enamoured with 'fire', 'horses', 'sacrifices'. The 'un-en-lightened among them might have been idol worshippers with folded hands, worshipping their Gods and Goddesses with leaves and flowers (Vinayaka-Ganapati worship with leaves, Idol Shiva (not phallus Shiva) worship with bilva leaves). The enlightened among the Ancient Native Indians might have been CONTEMPLATIVE AND MEDITATIVE, about questions such as Who am I, From where have I come, What will happen after I die, etc. etc. Consequent to this inquisitive mind and curiosity, some of them might have ventured into the world of PENANCE, SELF-DENIAL in the journey towards SELF-CONQUERING.

I am not a Medical Man or a Sexologist

I am not a Medical Man or a Sexologist, but I personally believe that soon after ejaculation, a male may depending on his age, may temporarily lose interest in coition (intercourse). Sometimes, he may develop a guilty or loss of self-confidence feeling that he could not control his senses. At that point, he may start considering a woman as an obstruction in the path of self-realisation. This may also be called 'tapO-bhangam' (Brake-break to penance), 'yOga-bhrashTham' (Fall from the Path of Renunciation, and Jitendriya (conquering of Senses).

Note: This vairAgya (disentanglement and moving away from woman) is only temporary. Like hunger, instincts take human males and females again to the alter/pulpit of intercourse. Thus, Union, dis-union= temporary vairagya, and resumption are only cyclic /alternating processes.

PROBABLE REASONS FOR RESTRICTIONS ON ENTRY OF WOMEN INTO SANCTUM SANCTORA

From the above environment, arrive seekers, who build their AShrams (hermitages) and Prayer Houses, which restrict entry of Women into sanctum-sanctorum(s). These restrictive practices, were originally self-regulative and self-constrainments against male-seekers themselves, and were not intended against women, or representative of 'women-inequality'. For this reason only, there were no marriages or female companions for Jain Munis. According to Jain scriptures, Jain Munis were provided protection in the form of 'yakshinis' (Jain yakshinis). My readers may refer to our previous blog-posts at this blog about Goddesses Padmavathi and Ambika at Tirumala, in our studies into the Histories and Tales of Tirumala Venkateswara Temple. Padmavathi and Ambika were not wives of Jain Gurus. They were only Guardians.

WOMEN CAN ALSO DO PENANCE, BUILD PRAYER HOUSES WITH RESTRICTIONS ON ENTRY TO MEN

There is no bar on women-truth-seekers or liberation-seekers, in Indian culture. For example, in Mahabharata Epic, whatever may be their goals, we can see that Amba (whom Bhishma refused to marry), Madhavi (whom Galava gifted to Kings in exchange for horses, and who finally married Sage Visvamitra), ultimately resorted to penance.

Goddess Parvati did penance to marry Lord Shiva. But, Lord Shiva while in penance, when Parvati served him, considered her as a hindrance, when Manmatha (Cupid) sent his Floral Arrows to him. Shiva's ire fell on Manmatha and he was reduced to ashes.

So, what is that, you want to suggest ultimately?

Ans: Our prayer customs of restricting entry of women at certain places, may be a part of the tradition of 'penance' and 'jitEndriya (conquering of senses) objectives. Feminist Women too can pursue these objectives. They too can build their own prayer houses of all religions, and ban entry of men/lgbts etc. into the Feminist Sanctum Sanctorums.

So what?

Prayerhouses are only fillers of time. If we do not have prayer-houses, people may have to visit bars and pubs. Prayer-houses can probably wean away people from reckless alcoholism and debauches. Health is Wealth. Besides, it may contribute to pluralism, and Individualism in India.

More to edit/write. To continue. सशेष. ఇంకా ఉంది.

631 Part 7 of a study on the History of Tirumala-Tirupati भाग ७- तिरुमल तिरुपती क्षेत्र इतिहास अध्ययन, विचार। భాగం 7 తిరుమల తిరుపతి క్షేత్ర చరిత్ర అధ్యయనము , పరిశీలన.

In post No. 513 at this blog, part 4 of this Tirumala kshEtra studies, I suggested that the Lord Venkateswara's idol at Tirumala may be that of Jain tIrthankara nEmInatha. In Part 5 and Part 6, we have dealt with some more issues dealing with Early Indians (also early Jains as distinct from Modern Jains). We shall, now, try to study the possibility of Goddess Padmavathi being a Jain Goddess. इस ब्लाग के पोस्ट नं. ५१३ , हमारे तिरुमल क्षेत्राध्ययन और परिशीलन भाग ४ मॆं मै यह प्रतिपादन किया कि (वह अंतिम नहीं है, वह केवल प्रारंभिक है, और आगे बहुत परिशोथन और चर्चा करने का है) कि, तिरुमला मॆं भगवान वॆंकटेश्वर के मूर्ती जैन तीर्थंकर नेमीनाथ का हे सकता है। उस प्रतिपादन का आधार था ऐतिहासिक धृवीकृत अंस बुक्कराय संधी जिसके द्वारा विजयनगर प्रभु बुक्कराय ने जैनों और वैष्णव धर्मचारियों मध्य एक राजी किया था। श्रावण बॆळगॊळ जैन क्षेत्र के रक्षण को प्रति में जैनों को तिरुमल मंदिर को वैष्णव देवालय रहने के लिये अंगीकर देना पडा था। మనం ఈ బ్లాగులో, పోస్టు నం. ౫౧౩, ఈ తిరుమల తిరుపతి క్షేత్ర ఇతిహాస అధ్యయనం భాగం ౪ లో నేను ప్రతిపాదించినది ఏమిటంటే, తిరుమల లో ని శ్రీవేంకటేశ్వర భగవానుడి విగ్రహం జైన తీర్ధంకరుడైన నేమీనాధుడిది అయి ఉండ వచ్చని. దానికి ఆధారంగా దాదాపుగా ఋజువు అయిన విజయనగర చక్రవర్తి బుక్కరాయలు కుదిర్చిన బుక్కరాయ సంధిని తీసుకున్నాము. ఈ సంధిలో భాగంగా జైనులు తిరుమల పై తమ హక్కును వైష్ణవులకు అనుకూలంగా వదులుకుంటే, వారికి బుక్కరాయలు శ్రావణ బెళగొళ జైన మందిరానికి రక్షణ కలిగించేలా ఏర్పాటయింది. తురవాత ౫ వ భాగంలో ౬ వి భాగంలో ఇంకా మరికొన్ని అంశాలను పరిశీలించాము. కొనసాగింపు.

IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION मुख्य स्पष्टीकरण ముఖ్య స్పష్టీకరణ
Guardian Goddesses (SAsana dEvatAs) in Jainism are not to be regarded as conserts (wives) of tIrthankarAs. tIrthankarAs were celibate monks. They were never married. The Guardian Goddesses, according to legend, were appointed by Indra to protect the tIrthankaras. Guardian Goddesses are also called YakshiNis, a sort of inferior-demi-Goddesses. They are regarded as inferior to tIrthankaras. In Hinduism also yakshas and yakshiNis are regarded only as demy-Gods.

On the other hand the three Shaktis (Three Chief Goddesses i.e. Saraswati, Lakshmi, Parvati, wives of Creator Brahma, Protector VishNu, Destroyer Shiva respectively, and mother Goddess AdI Shakti (First-foremost Supreme Power- mother of the three Gods Brahama, VishNu, and Maheshwar) are worshipped and ranked pari passu (equal in rank) with three Main Gods(Goddesses).

The 18 Shakti Pithas (18 Seats of Mother Goddess dEvi or Adi Shakti), 51 Shakti Pithas (51 seats), 9 Goddesses Durga (nava durga) all these are just different names for the same Mother Goddess dEvi or Adi Shakti, including Saraswati, Lakshmi and Parvati.

Names of the Jain Goddesses though called yakshis, treated as inferior to tIrthankaras, though believed to have births and deaths like humans, have many similarities to the Aryan Goddesses. In Indian Culture which includes the sub cultures Jain, Hindu sub-Cultures, these Goddesses (Yakshinis or Principal Goddesses whatever nomenclature is used) are worshipped with great reverance as DESIRE FULFILLERS.

Here, it will not be out of context for me to point out that in Latvia-Lithuania-Old-Prussia,Scandinavia, Baltics ancient civilisations from which Aryans migrated into India, there are 14 mAtE (14 Mothers), and some Festivals take place even today in those countries, though Christianity tries to insult them as pagan Gods/Goddesses/cultures. VishNu also was a Indo-European-Scandinavian God (insulted as pagan by Christianity). So thus, while VishNu + parjanya (indra-varuna) + some other Gods + 14 Mate of Latvia-Lithuania-Old Prussian Aryan Culture, after their migration into India, expanded in India into larger number of Gods and Goddesses.

In Jain sub-culture, the idols of Guardian Goddesses protecting the main God (tirthankara) will be smaller in size. There seems to be a tradition of protective Goddesses having a serpant hood.

AMBIKA (kUshmAnDa Devi)- idol of the deity is to be traced in Tirumala (Upper Hill) itself
The Protective Goddess of nEmInatha is ambikA (also called amba, kUshmAnDA dEvi). Her idol should normally be available somewhere near the nEminAtha (Venkateswara) temple, but it is not a taboo that, the protective Goddess's temple can be at a distance. If Archeological Survey of India takes up some indepth excavations on a larger scale at Tirumala, the idol of ambika (amba or kUshmAnDa dEvi) may be traced there itself (provided it has not been removed by vaishNava priests treating it as diminutive yakshIni).

Goddess ambika's vehicle (vAhanam or mount) is lion (simham). We can see these lions on the temple dome of Lord Venkateswara. Friday Worship in the Temple, use of turmeric and vermillon for worship, etc. also support the idea of ambika worship. There is also a custom called 'kUshmAnDa dAnam' (giving away a pumpkin). People thinking that kUshmAnDa dEvi is inferior to Goddess Lakshmi might have led to a custom of hanging a pumpkin at the entrance of houses, during house warming ceremony, probably as a protector demy-Goddess, while she ought to have been regarded as a higher level Goddess.

Padmavathi
Goddess Padmavathi is now regarded as a consert of Lord Venkateswara at Tirumala. There is also the story of AkAsharAju as his father-in-law and Vakula as his mother. Explanatory story for her staying away from Lord Venkateswara is her resentment, when Goddess Padmavathi saw Lord Venkateswara with Principal Goddess Lakshmi who came down from the highest heaven VaikunTham of Lord VishNu to meet her husband. Then some Narada or Creator Brahma has to intervene to convince and pacify both Lakshmi and Padmavathi that they were only allotropes of the same principal Goddess Mahalakshmi. (Those who do not know this story may see the Telugu Movie Venkateswara Mahatmyam, in which Late N.T.Rama Rao acted as Lord Venkateswara, Actress Late Savitri played the role of Padmavathi, Actress S. Varalakshmi played the role of Principal Goddess Mahalakshmi (also called Sri Lakshmi).

For those who wish to know the details of this film, here is a Wikipedia link: Click to go to wikipedia

Click to go to youtube videos of the movie.

Most conspicuous difference between the idols of the Jain deity Padmavathi and the VaishNava deity Padmavathi is : Jain deity has a serpant-hood over head. Vaishnavaite deity does not have. Sitting on lotus in a lake is common for both. pASa (Noose) as a weapon is common for both.

If Padmavati is to be related to Sri Venkateswara, we have to identify Venkateswara's idol as that of Parsvanatha, and not nEminatha. As Padmavathi is guardian of tirthankara Parsvanatha, the temple of Parsvanatha should also be nearby in Tirupati. Goddess Padmavati has another name Alarmelu mangA (Padmavati = one who is seated on a Lotus. Alar = Lotus in Tamil. mElu = seat in Tamil. manga, mangala = auspicious.). Her abode Tiruchanur is also called Mangapuram, Alarmelu MangApuram, Tirupati Local. There is a temple called Srinivasa Mangapuram, near Tiruati, where KalyANa venkaTEswara is the deity. This Srinivasa (another name for Venkateswara) can be Parsvanatha.

It appears that most Jain tirthankaras and Guardian goddesses (padmAvati, ambika in case of Tirumala) seem to have attached water tanks (pushkariNis). If Archeological Survey of India makes detailed excavations at Tiruchanoor, and Srinivsa mangApuram, probably ruins of some Jain Temples may be found which can probably help in identifying pArsvanAtha, nEminAtha, ambika(kUshmAnDa dEvi), and the original idol of padmAvathi with snake canopy.

To continue. सशेष. సశేషం.

597 Part 6 (Not final) of a Study on the History of Tirumala Tirupati Temple भाग ६- तिरुमल तिरुपति मंदिर के इतिहास विषय पर शोथना. భాగం 6 తిరుమల తిరుపతి దేవాలయ పూర్వ చరిత్ర పై ఒక శోథన

REFERENCES TO BUDDHIST AND JAIN MONKS IN VAISHNAVA SCRIPTURES వైష్ణవ గ్రంధాలలో బౌధ్ధ జైన ధర్మాల ప్రసక్తి

LINKS TO OUR PREVIOUS BLOGS 1. POST NO. 513 Part 4 of History of Tirumala Tirupati

2. POST No. 584 http://problemsoftelugus.blogspot.com/search/label/584

To recapitulate: Shri Ramana Dikshitulu, the Chief Priest of the Tirumala Bhagavan Shri Venkateswara Temple, conceded that the principal idol of the Lord Venkateswara does not have hair on his dorsal side. (See 584).

"This has negativated the possibility of the main idol being that of BAla Tripura Sundari or any other female Goddess (Shakti)."

Here we have to exercise caution. The temple's dome has some signs of Goddess Shakti (Female Goddess, Mother). This again opens up several branches of thinking such as Original Jain temple being taken over by ShAktEyas (Mother Goddess or Devi worshippers) and building the dome with Devi Symbols like Lions, while the idol remain the tonsured head of Jain Neminatha. These are not conclusions. These are only some clues, which have to be discussed by historians and scholars.

In parts 1 to 4 we have already seen that there was some probability of the TTD Shri Venkateswara Temple being a Jain Temple taken over by VaishNavas. Main evidence for this view was provided by Bukkaraya Sandhi (2nd Vijayanagara Emperor Bukka Raya giving protection to Sravana Belagola Jain Temple in Karnataka, in exchange for Jains surrendering their rights on Tirumala Temple.

We shall now see how Vaishnava Scriptures treated Buddhist and Jain Monks. The word "pAShAnDA" refers to a person who has deviated from the path of Yagnas (Worshipping God through the medium of Fire God (a demy God), without the aid of idols and temples). We shall take quotations from Chaturdha Skantha (Vol. 4 ) of Mahabhagavatam Telugu Translation of Bammera Potanamatya. Equivalent original Sanskrit verses of Vyasa's Mahabhagavata (Bhagavata purANa) we shall add later.

Context: Chief of the Demy Gods Indra, stole the sacrificial horse of Emperor Prithu, and was flying home in the sky, with the horse.

The Emperor was angry. He chased Indra and caught hold of him.

Verse No. 521 is important here:

prosody: KANDAM.

vini prithu bhUvara tanayuDu,
ghana balamuna cani kapAla khaTvAmgamu lO
lini dhariyinci rayambuna,
canun indruni kAmci vompa cAlaka yantan.

The Chief Demy-God Indra was escaping with the horse. Indra was wearing kapAlam (scull), lOlini (meaning not clear, to be investigated.)

Link to read about KhatVAng: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kha%E1%B9%ADv%C4%81%E1%B9%85ga

khaTvAngam is a religious symbol, and a hand-staff-weapon carried by Shaivites and VajrayAna Buddhists. KhaTvAnga is said to represent "vajra". Incidentally, it may be noted that Indra's vajrAyudha is also made of human bone of Sage dadhIci.

Telugu script. కంద పద్యం. చతుర్ధాశ్వాసం ౫౨౧ పద్యం.

విని పృథు భూవర తనయుడు,
ఘన బలమున చని కపాల ఖట్వాంగము లో
లిని ధరియించి రయంబున,
చను ఇంద్రుని కాంచి నొంప చాలక అంతన్.

ఖట్వాంగం బొమ్మ పైన ఉంది. ఖట్వాంగాన్ని ఆయుధం క్రింద గణించటం జరిగింది. దీనికే వజ్రం అనే పేరు కూడ ఉందిట. మొదట ఎముకలతో తయారు చేసినా కాల గమనంలో చెక్క, ఖట్వాంగాన్ని లోహంతో తయారు చేయటం మొదలయింది. ఇంద్రుడి ఆయుధం కూడ వజ్రమే. ఇది దధీచి అనే ఋషి పక్కటెముకలనుండి తయారు చేయబడింది. ఇంద్రుడు ధరించిన ఈ లోలిని అనే పదం యొక్క అర్ధం తెలీదు.

మొత్తానికి ఇంద్రుడు శైవులు, వజ్రయాన బౌధ్ధులు ధరించే ఆయుధాలను ధరించాడుట. Anyway, the Demy God Indra was wearing the clothes and the weapons, which Saivaites, Vajrayana BUDDHISTS used to wear in those days.

Ref: Potana's Andhra Mahabhagavatam, Chaturdha Skandham. Version: Telugu Academy. Verse No. 525.

Prosody (Chandas) : Sisa verse.

Verse:

Hari hayunD adhvara haya rakshaNArdhamai minchi gaikoni visarjinchi natti
bhUri amangaLabhUta mAyA rUpamulanu dharinciri mUDha janulu
pAshAnDa cihnamul paraguTa vAralu jagatipai nagna vEshamulu kalugu
Jainulu bhUri kAshAya vastrambulu dhariyincu bauddhulu taga jaTAsthi

(verse prosody tETa gIti supplement)
bhasma dhArulu naina kApAlikAdu
lanaga velasiri lOkambu landu cAla
talapa dharmOpamamb ana tagun adharma
mandun abhirati voDamina yagna janulu.

సీస పద్యం.

హరిహయుం డధ్వర హయ రక్షణార్ధమై కై కొని విసర్జించనట్టి
భూరి అమంగళ భూత మాయా రూపములను ధరించిరి మూఢజనులు
పాషాండ చిహ్నముల్ పరగుట వారలు జగతిపై నగ్న వేషములు కలుగు
జైనులు భూరి కాషాయ వస్త్రంబులు ధరియించు బౌధ్ధులు తగ జటాస్థి

భస్మదారులు నైన కాపాలికాదు
లనగ వెలసిరి లోకంబులందు చాల
తలప ధర్మోపమంబన తగు అధర్మ
మందున్ అభిరతి వొడమిన యజ్ఞ జనులు.

వచనం. తదీయ చిహ్నంబులు పారంపర్యంబుగా ధరియింపం తొడంగిరి. తద్వృత్తాంతంబు భగవంతుండైన పృథు చక్రవర్తి యెరింగి , కుపితుడై యుద్యత్ కార్ముకుండగుచున్ ఇంద్రుని మీద బాణంబు నేయన్ ఉద్యమించిన ఋత్విక్కులు శక్ర వధోద్యుక్తుండు న్ అసహ్య రంహుండునైన పృథు చక్రవర్తిం కనుంగొని యిట్లనిరి.

ఇక్కడ గమనించాల్సింది నగ్నంగా తిరిగే వాళ్ళు జైనులుట. భూరి (గొప్ప) కాషాయ వస్త్రాలు ధరించే వాళ్ళు బౌధ్ధులుట. జటలు, ఎముకలు, బూడిద ధరించే వాళ్ళు కాపాలికులు. ఆకాలం నాటి (అంటే పృథు చక్రవర్తి కాలం నాటి, లేక భాగవతానికి ఒక రూపం వచ్చిన గుప్తుల నాటి, లేక పోతన గారి ౧౪ శతాబ్దం నాటి) వైష్ణవుల దృష్టిలో కాషాయ వస్త్రాలను ధరించటం, నగ్నంగా తిరగటం, ఖట్వాంగాన్ని ధరించటం ఇవన్నీ అమంగళ రూపాలు. మరి నేటి ౨౧ శతాబ్దం సన్యాసులు స్వరూపానందేంద్ర, పరిపూర్ణానంద , చిన్న జియర్, పెద్ద జియర్, సుందర చైతన్యం, గణపతి సచ్చిదానందం మొ|| వారు ధరించే కాషాయాలను ఏమనాలి. అవి మంగళ స్వరూపాలా.

What does Vyasa Mahabhagavata say about this? इस विषयांश पर, व्यास महाभागवत पुराण क्या कहती ఈ విషయం గురించి వ్యాస మహాభాగవతం ఏమంటుంది

ఉపసృజ్య తమస్తీవ్రం జహారాశ్వం పునర్హరిః
చషాలయూపతశ్ఛన్నో హిరణ్యరశనం విభుః
అత్రిః సందర్శయామాస త్వరమాణం విహాయసా
కపాల scull ఖట్వాంగధరం వీరో నైనమబాధత Indra was wearing KhatvAnga. Here vyAsa is using the word "vIrO" meaning like a valiant warrior. The word used by pOtana is "lOlini" the meaning of which contextually we can take as "engaged joyfully in wearing the khaTvAnga)
అత్రిణా చోదితస్తస్మై సందధే విశిఖం రుషా
సోఽశ్వం రూపం చ తద్ధిత్వా తస్థావంతర్హితః స్వరాట్
వీరశ్చాశ్వముపాదాయ పితృయజ్ఞమథావ్రజత్
తదవద్యం హరే రూపం జగృహుర్జ్ఞానదుర్బలాః
యాని రూపాణి జగృహే ఇంద్రో హయజిహీర్షయా
తాని పాపస్య ఖండాని లింగం ఖండమిహోచ్యతే
ఏవమింద్రే హరత్యశ్వం వైన్యయజ్ఞజిఘాంసయా
తద్గృహీతవిసృష్టేషు పాఖండేషు మతిర్ నృణాం PashanDEshu (also pAkhanDEshu). NriNAm refers to sinners.
ధర్మ ఇత్ యుపధర్మేషు నగ్నరక్తపటాదిషు naked & Ochre robes. nagna= naked. rakta paTAdishu= ochre robed. UpadharmEshu refers to sub religions. Jainism and Buddhism were not specifically mentioned by name. It is a custom to regard Jainism and Buddhism as sub religions.
This may probably be, because, Sanskrit Mahabhagavata evolved around 3rd Century A.D., whereas Potana's Telugu Bhagavatam was scripted in 14th/15th Century A.D. At that time, Residual Andhra Pradesh and Telangana were under turmoil for two parallel reasons. There were internecine fights between Saivas, Jains, and Vaishnavas. It is said that during KAkati Ganapati Deva's rule, Tikkana came from Nellore to Warangal, defeated Jain scholars in some religious arguments (whatever it may mean!!!) and thereafter forcibly converted them into Saivism, converted the Jaina ARAmAs of Amaravati, Bhimavaram, Palakol, DakshArama, Samarlakota into Shaivaite Temples. Larger evidence is needed to establish the facts.

During the same period, in the South, BukkarAya made a compromise between Jains and VaishNavas whereby Jains surrendered the Tirumala Temple, in exchange for protection to Sravana Belagola. Potana being a resident of Warangal might have been aware of some of these things.

During the same period Juna Khan (Mohd. Bin Tuglack's Commander) took KakatIya ruler PratApa Rudra II as prisoner to Delhi. Hence Potana's specifically naming Jainas, Bauddhas specifically, and VyAsa just saying sub-religions seems to be justified.

Potana himself belonged to a smArta sect of Brahmins [literal meaning as per smritis or memorised scriptures. Practical meaning, a compromising mixed cult evolved after the advent of Adi Shankara , by combining the six Sub Religions i.e. Shiva, VishNu, Ganapati, Kumaraswami (shaNmukha), dEvi (Mother Goddess) and Brahma]. His ancestors were not pure VaishNavas of either the vaikhAnasa or pAncarAtra paths wearing vertical facial marks). Yet, he took great joy in translating a VishNu scripture.

But the Residual Religion of the country seems to have some intolerance towards Jains and Buddhists as can be seen from Potana's verses (the word Hinduism was not in vogue in those days. The phrase "sanAtana dharma" (Ancient Religion) was also apparently not in vogue.). Had smArta culture openly included Buddhism and Jainism apart from the six faiths already said to have been harmonised by Adi Shankara, i.e. a composite culture of eight sub religions, probably Indian history might have taken a different trajectory. This is only a preliminary if-and-but view. Yet Potana stands as a symbol of Pluralism and tolerance when compared to the climate of intolerance prevailing in the 21st Century. This is in spite of the fact that the period 1000 AD to 1947 being DARK AGE in Indian History.

ప్రాయేణ సజ్జతే భ్రాంత్యా పేశలేషు చ వాగ్మిషు

తదభిజ్ఞాయ భగవాన్పృథుః పృథుపరాక్రమః Prithu gets ready to slay INDRA.
ఇంద్రాయ కుపితో బాణమాదత్తోద్యతకార్ముకః
తమృత్విజః శక్రవధాభిసంధితం విచక్ష్య దుష్ప్రేక్ష్యమసహ్యరంహసం
నివారయామాసురహో మహామతే న యుజ్యతేఽత్రాన్యవధః ప్రచోదితాత్ Animals can be killed in sacrifices.
వయం మరుత్వంతమిహార్థనాశనం హ్వయామహే త్వచ్ఛ్రవసా హతత్విషం
అయాతయామోపహవైరనంతరం ప్రసహ్య రాజన్జుహవామ తేఽహితం

THIS PARTICULAR BLOG POST is incomplete. We shall try to complete as early as possible. यह ब्लाग पोस्ट असंपूर्ण और सशेष् है. ఈ బ్లాగు పోస్టు అసంపూర్ణంగా ఉంది. త్వరలో తిరగ వ్రాస్తాను, పూర్తి చేస్తాను.

Links to Previous parts, succeeding parts of this particular subject

Part 1:Click to go to Post 508
Part 2:Click to go to post 511
Part 3:Click to go to post 512
Part 4:Click to go to post 513
Part 5:Click to go to post 584
Part 6:Click to go to post 597
Part 7:
Part 8:
Part 9:
Part 10:

511 Part 2 of Tirumala Venkateswara, Veerabhadra, Neminatha भाग २ तिरुमल वेंकटेश्वर, वीरभद्र, नेमीनाथ, భాగం 2 తిరుమల శ్రీవేంకటేశ్వర, వీరభద్ర, నేమీనాథ.

Clarification: No illwill intended against any caste/community/sect/sub-religion/cult/clan/religion. Kindly tolerate and bear with me.

In the part I, (post No. 508), I have quoted from the book of Shri Survarapu Pratapa Reddy, Social History of Andhras, and from Shripati panditA, a Kakatiya period author i.e. 12th and 13th Century author of Srikara BhAshyam. From that evidence, there was an indication, that Venkateswara's idol and temple at Tirumala-Tirupati was a Veerabhadra Temple. Veerabhadra was another form of Lord Shiva.

Link to Part 1: http://problemsoftelugus.blogspot.com/search/label/508.



STORY OF VEERABHADRA
The story of Veerabhadra is a part of Daksha's Sacrifice. Story Briefly: Daksha was first father-in-law of Lord Shiva. Daksha's daughter was 'Sati'. Sati married Shiva, against the wishes of her father. Once when Daksha came, Shiva didn't get up, though he was a son-in-law, and was expected to show courtesy towards his father-in-law. Daksha took it as an insult to him from his son-in-law, and commenced a big sacrifice, to which he didnot deliberately invite Shiva. Daksha's daughter, much against the wishes of her husband Shiva, attended the sacrifice, uninvited. Daksha, seeing his daughter, uninvited got furious. An oral verbal altercation took place between them, and unable to bear insult from her father, Sati self-generated a fire (this is called yoga - agni) and self-immolated herself. Hearing of the untimely death of his wife, Shiva came to the sacrificial arena. Seeing the ghastly scene at Daksha's place, Shiva got enraged, plucked a small hair from his head and dropped it on the ground, from which arose the Great God Veerabhadra. Veera = warrior, valiant; bhadra = secure. Veerabhadra beheaded Daksha. Broke the teeth of Lord Vishnu. Subdued every God present there, including Brahma and Indra. At the request of sages and Daksha's wailing wife, Veerabhadra fixed a goat's head to Daksha's neck and revived him. From then, Daksha did not disrespect Shiva. What happened to Shiva then, is a separate longer story.

Question: There is a claim, that Tirumala Tirupati Venkateswara Temple belonged to Jains. This discussion, you can see at: Click .

Reply

Ans: The discussion there, seems to have a little unilaterality in it. For example, they have not mentioned about Veerabhadra. This seems to be because, the blogger seems to be a Jain follower. The blog attracted 43 comments, most of which supported him.

One of such comments by one reader by Shri Krishna Rao S.T. is valuable and worth examining, I am quoting it:-

Krishna Rao. S T said... i am Hindu historian I ve read a old inscription named "bukkaraya sandi" available with archaeological dept. Karnataka. (you can visit city central library at bangalore for the copy)This is originally an agreement between jains and vaishnavas in 14th century stating jains have to leave thirumala neminath temple to vaishnavas and vaishnavas will not destroy Shravanabelagola bahubali statue as a good gesture. otherwise king buukkaraya (one of the founder of vijayanagar Empire?)will punish all jains in his kingdom ..... June 26, 2012 at 4:21 AM

Buddhist Shrine?



There is also another claim. Here is a link to a pdf book which says that "Tirupati Balaji was a Buddhist Shrine, by K. Jamanadas". This book has some quotations from Late Shri B.R. Ambedkar.

Click to download pdf book

ybrao a donkey's comment about Tirupati Temple being a Buddhist shrine: This book needs in depth studies. Prima facie the arguments given in the book, as far as Tirumala-Tirupati are concerned, do not provide things of solid evidence. ‎

ybrao a donkey's comment about Tirupati shrine being a JAIN / Buddhist shrine


I could not procure a copy of the Bukkaraya Sandhi, mentioned to have seen by Shri Krishna Rao above, either from Archaeology Dept., Karnataka, or City Central Library, Bangalore. I request any of interested readers to upload a scanned copy of this Bukkaraya Sandhi to internet, and place a link to it, in the comments section below.

The explanation that Tirupati Jain Neminath Temple was handed over to Ramanuja Vaishnavas, in exchange for royal patronage and protection to Shravana Belagola GomaThEswar Temple is understandable.


But the idol of Shri Venkateswara does not seem to have the features of a Jain idol , whereas it seems to have features of a Shaiva idol-- viz. third eye, serpant, hairlocks, a Shiva linga below hands. TTD authorities have prohibited photography or video-filming in the sanctum sanctorum.


 The priests seem to attribute a funny reason: A photographed, the idol loses its divine protective qualities. This does not appear to stand reason. All over the country, most prayer houses allow photographs and video-filming of the chief idol/shiva lingam of the temple. None of them seem to suffer any gain or loss from the photographs and video-filming. Recently, I have seen one such live TV relay of the proceedings of the bathing ceremony of Lord Vishwanath, Kasi (Varanasi).

Humans are not losing their powers of intellect or any other capabilities, faculties when they get photographed.  How can then Gods, who are supposed to be superhuman, lose their powers by human actions?


Human can neither empower Gods or un-power Gods, if Gods exist conforming to  the general definition of Gods as creators-protectors-and destroyers of all the cosmos, including humans.   Humans are too small-a-fry(ies) to empower Gods.  This idea, we can probably apply even to samprokshaNams (cleansing a place with sacred water and sacred chants) during grahaNams (eclipses).



By not agreeing to photo/video of the original deity or at least to show it to an Independent Committee, the Temple Administration, Priests, Monks will be giving room to believe that the claims of Jains, Buddhists, Saivaites could be true.


Just as "the richest person" does not mean the "greatest person" in the world, "richest God" need not mean the "Greatest God".


Of course there is no definition of Greatness. It is an attribute which has no dimensions, form, color, smell etc. and defies definition. 


We have to keep in mind that, except one or two scriptures, other scriptures do not have any references to God Venkateswara.  Most scriptures refer only to VishNu, his ten incarnations (why Venkateswara was not included as the 10th incarnation in the place of Kalki?) , Siva and many other deities, but never to Lord Venkateswara (Veerabhadra is also not very popular in many scriptures and in many temples of India, including Siva and Shakti temples).


COVERING FOREHEAD OF SHRI VENKATESWARA WITH VERY LARGE V OR U SIGN
The forehead of the deity is always covered with VishNu's nAmam (V or U sign). Chest is also, always covered with many ornaments. Besides, the idol does not contain the essential features of traditional Vishnu idols found all over the country. Particularly, the Conch (Sankham) and Disc (Chakram) are conspicuous by their absence in the original stone idol.  These two are being added by getting them made with gold.


EXPLANATION STORY FOR ABSENCE OF CONCH & DISC (SANKHAM & CHAKRAM)
A book by name Venkatachala Mahatmyam SAYS, that Venkateswara gave his weapons to King TonDaman, to enable them to use against his (Tondaman's)  enemies.


This story does not appear to be tenable, because of questions like

a) Do Gods need weapons like disc, at all?  Gods by their very thoughts, they should be able to destroy enemies including Malik Kafer, Mohammed Ghazni, Mohammed Ghori,  Ghiyazuddin Tuglack, Robert Clive, Warren Hastings, Bussey, Vasco De Gama.  No need to send discs.


b) Even if Gods want to give some weapons to their devotees, and Gods need weapons, such weapons can be "multi-present", i.e. present at several places at a time, like Lord Krishna who was said to have simultaneously resided in the gynesia of all his eight wives!


Yoga VASishTham also speaks of , one soul taking rebirth in two different bodies (one soul need not confine itself to only one body.).    Same way one weapon need not confine itself to only one place.

If this argument is not correct, what Lord Venkateswara would have done, had Muslims invaded his temple during Malik Kafer period or during Vijayanagara period?  Would he have run to Tondaman, keeping the Muslims waiting at the Main Gate,  entreating Tondaman to return his conch and disc or alternatively defend the Temple?




TTD authorities, if they believe in the concept of Satyam (truth and dharmam), have to, at least once show a washed  bare and unadorned idol of the God to a Committee of independent- respectable persons, which includes one representative from Saiva culture, one representative from Buddhist culture, one representative from Jaina culture. This verification, will once for all, close all imaginary hypothetical questions.


Right now, I can present one view: Near Tirupati, there is a great place called Kancheepuram, which includes a Shiva Kanchi, a VishNu Kanchi, and a Jaina Kanchi, a Triveni Sangamam like confluence of all the three cultures. There is a temple called Tiruparutikundram, Jina Kanchi on the South-Western peripheries of Kancheepuram. This place has Jain temples for Chandraprabha and Vardhaman Mahavir. At this place, there might have existed a temple for the 22nd Tirdhankar Neminath also. Tirupati might not have been a Jain Temple.

Another possibility:  As Jain culture was a non-violent culture, Saivaites might have occupied the shrine and installed a statue of Veerabhadra in the place of Neminath.  But this possibility may not be correct, because the Tirupati Temple structure, sculpture, do not reflect a Jain culture.

Note: This is not a devotional blog. No need of praising me. Abuses are welcome. (To continue, with more information).

TAIL PIECE
As per news reports, The Chief Information Commissioner or the concerned Union Ministry, are said to be unable to define the words "Satyam" (Truth) and Isvar (or Eswar) (Supreme God), in response to a query under RTI Act. The Chief Information Commissioner, as per the reports, is said to have re-asked the question to the applicant, who also could not define it. Strange , isn't it?



ybrao-a-donkey's humble perceptions वैबीराव गधे के विनम्र अनुशीलनाएँ और भावनाएँ వైబీరావు గాడిద వినమ్ర అభిప్రాయాలు

Of course law may not be able to define Satyam and Isvar.  But then, according to Jurisprudence, the duty of the Court is to find out truth!  Lawyers are also employees of court to assist it, though paid for their services by clients.  They are not employees of court.  Mr. Madabhushi Sridharacharya is a reputed Lawyer and was a Law Professor.   He has to clarify how, a Court will find truth, without having a definition of Satyam (truth?).

Truth and Facts do not vary.  Facts are part of the Satyam, and they constitute the truth (Satyam).  Therefore, it may not be correct to say that Satyam-truth is not definable.  Probably Isvar (God) may not be definable.  But for the purpose of analyses, we can take the generally accepted definition of God , all over the world.  Actually there are not many disputes about the definition of God.  There are disputes about whose God is great, and whose God is pagan, and who are KAffirs, mlechchas.
 

Both Satyam and Iswar are same. "Sat" means what is eternal, permanent, and everlasting.  Iswar is a part of the Satyam.  Iswar cannot be independent of Satyam.  By its indestructibility, Satyam becomes capable of including Isvar in itself.  If Isvar holds all the worlds in his tummy (this is figurative usage)--Isvar has no tummy, Satyam possesses Isvar (if he-she exists at all) within itself.


 Telugu Potana's following verse (Sanskrit SlOka may be available in Mahabhagavata, we have to search, I shall take it up later).

Verse 75, Chapter 3, Canto 8, of Andhra MahabhAgavata of Bammera Potanamatya

lOkambulu lOkESulu
lOkasthulu tegina tudi alOkambagu pen
chIkaTi kavvala evvadu
EkAkriti velungu ataDi nE bhajiyintun. 8-3-75

English gist: After the destruction of these worlds, the rulers of these worlds, the residents of these worlds, are all destroyed (in the apocalypse), beyond the darkness that pervades everywhere, who glows with a single glow, I pray and worship him. This particular verse highlights the characteristic of eternal nature of Satyam and ISvar.

There are nearly ten other verses which try to define Isvar. Though these ten verses do not provide a perfect definition of Isvar (God), they give a reasonable indication of the Almighty. (Note: As an atheist and Marxist, I do not believe.)

The foremost of these is the verse:--

Evvani cE janimcu jagamu, evvani lOpala nundu lInamai,
evvani yandu dindu, paramEsvaru DevvaDu, mUlakAraNam
bevvaDu, anAdi madhya layuDevvaDu, sarvamu tAne aina vA
DevvaDu vAnin Atma bhavun, IsvarunE SaraNambu vEDedan.

From whom is this world born, in whom does this world remains (well protected),
into whom it will get merged, who is the Greatest of all the Gods, who is the foremost reason for this creation,
who has no beginning, middle and end, who is everything (omnipresent, the word VishNu also conveys this meaning of all pervasiveness),
Him, who is born in one's own self & soul, I take refuge in that God.

This is not just a wailing of an elephant (gajEndra). Through him, Potana expressed his clarity of mind about the God. In today's world of digital photography and internet, we want photos for everything. Actually, sometimes, even words can define with equal efficiency something which photos can depict, with seeming accuracy. Of course, both photos and words can mislead. But let us not doubt the sincerity of POtanAmAtya.

(Incomplete).   Shall complete shortly.  शीघ्र संपूर्ण करने के लिये कोशिश करता हूँ। త్వరలో పూర్తి చేస్తాను.